Curse

Burst Cancel · Feb 25, 2007, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bryant Again

It would actually make a really large difference. It would be great to be able to get money for skill points, get good equipment, and be able to afford other supplies. Like I said, you can get these items without doing the quests, which makes the quests that much more pointless.

Your statement is at best ambiguous and at worst self-contradictory. If you can get 'those items' without doing the quests, why would an improvement of those quests make any difference?

The issue here is this: farming is generally the best way to get something - you can farm XP (ie. skill points), you can farm gold, and you can farm equipment. Therefore, in order for quests to make a difference, they either have to give you something that can't be farmed, or they have to give you things that can be farmed, but with much less time and effort. In the case of the first option, I don't know of anything that can't be farmed, so I don't believe that to be a viable choice. In the second case, most rewards are so easy to farm that quests would have to give you those rewards in obscene quantities to be competitive - we're talking on the order of several plat and tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of XP per quest. Are any quests in the game honestly difficult enough to warrant that kind of reward?

Quote:

Originally Posted by mqstout

70 hours and still in Vabbi. Some of us like to enjoy the game as we play it.

We enjoyed it just fine. Being fast and efficient doesn't mean you can't enjoy yourself.

Orbberius · Feb 25, 2007, 02:52 AM // 02:52

I want goddamn skills quests back

Hell Raiser · Feb 25, 2007, 03:07 AM // 03:07

I completely agree with Burst Cancel.

This guy sounds like he is frustrated because he is good at every other game but this one has really made him think about the build he is using before going out and testing it, and then instead of going back in to redo and retesting it, he makes a blog about how the game sucks. Guild Wars is an amazing game (I admit it has fallen a bit, but it is still one of the best games I have ever played), there is no need to go attacking ArenaNet for making an area too hard for YOU, maybe instead of making an article that many people read (I guess) go to a forum and discuss your problems and maybe the Guild Wars community can give you tips on how to set up a build better, meet people who are willing to help you with those [Master] Quests etc etc.

Sounds like he is just whining.

PS: those people who are defending him, I'm guessing you are loyal readers and will back him up. There is nothing wrong with backing him on this, but maybe you need to see that there are better ways for him to handle such things (ie, ASKING FOR SOMEONES HELP.)

LifeInfusion · Feb 25, 2007, 04:10 AM // 04:10

Realm of Torment is pretty brutal compared to everything from factions and prophecies because of patrols and call to the torment. Domain of Anguish is basically Realm of torment but with stacked environmental effects and mobs with higher damage. If it weren't so it would be like FoW or UW where people could actually use any build so long as it is effective.

manitoba1073 · Feb 25, 2007, 05:03 AM // 05:03

The non-funness and low reward most of us are talking about. Is quite simple really.

For those who doubt it. Do this test. Go clear 1 area of RoT then write down the drops you get there damage color and what mods they come with.

These are the types of rewards most people have been talking about.

bamm bamm bamm · Feb 25, 2007, 05:14 AM // 05:14

From what I can gather, he thinks the Realm of Torment is too hard and quest rewards don't represent the difficulty of the area. I know people have expressed their concern for the difficulty before, so he's not alone on that point. The problem is, a lot of people express the ease at which they breeze through PvE in general too. From what I can tell Anet have been ramping up the difficulty and people are starting to complain in the opposite direction. The obvious response would be to notch it down again and then implement an optional hard mode, something they clearly intend to do.

As for quest rewards, the problem is that Anet always offer a farming alternative, making it pretty difficult to increase reward beyond 'I could get it easier elsewhere'. In that sense the reward is always going to feel inadequate. I think this is something they'll eventually have to address.

Judging from the way he made his point I'd say he's tired of more than the RoT. I think maybe he should find something else to play for awhile and see how he feels about the next chapter.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

Being fast and efficient doesn't mean you can't enjoy yourself.

There's a joke in there somewhere.

strcpy · Feb 25, 2007, 05:39 AM // 05:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

In the second case, most rewards are so easy to farm that quests would have to give you those rewards in obscene quantities to be competitive - we're talking on the order of several plat and tens of thousands or even hundreds of thousands of XP per quest. Are any quests in the game honestly difficult enough to warrant that kind of reward?

Pretty much what I kinda think. I wouldn't mind higher rewards in general, but that is not the same as what is being said. I wouldn't mind more gold or XP in general, though I do wish they had more Lightbringer points from quests and that the RoT bounties gave more than 2 lb points per kill. It *is* somewhat irritating that those rewards there are the same as Vabbi.

More XP - why? My Dervish already has enough skill points to get max skill hunter - no farming, just beat all three games and did quests. Gold? She purchased vabbian chest, feet, hands and primeval head and leggings all dyed black, superior vigor, major vigor for all heroes, and full rune sets including insignias - again no farming, just playing through all three chapters (no elite areas cleared at that point either). Heroes are fully equipped with greens or max golds from chests/drops. I average about 3 hours of gaming a day since nightfall release, going into nightfall I had spent all my gold on armor for my ele (which I ended up getting rid of and purchasing her a set of sunspear elite - also purchased in the last little bit from playing the game and no farming).

If I hadn't fully equipped three characters worth of heroes to the hilt I would have enough to cap all the skills. Still, no farming. And when I finally go back to doing that I *hate* high level farming. Griffons/hydra's are as high as I go.

Given what just playing the game gives you if you pay attention (all my sales are merched or done at the traders, trading with players takes too long), to give good enough rewards would devalue them to the point that they will no longer be worth it. In the end, the rewards for Vabbi and below are too high to have the RoT (or even the DoA) *ever* give rewards equal to its difficulty without totally destroying the economy. Heck, the highest rewards are in Vabbi (trade contracts) and they pretty much blow every other quest reward in all three chapters away. If you scaled that up to compare with the difficulty difference then inflation would split people into those who have made it to the RoT and those that haven't - about like the early days of the 105 monks.

{edit} I would add, however, that some of the elite areas probably do warrant that type of PvE reward. That is much better than the current DoA stuff. Though - what do I complain about? As a pure hench/hero player I can't go there anyway.

Zehnchu · Feb 25, 2007, 06:16 AM // 06:16

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Raiser

PS: those people who are defending him, I'm guessing you are loyal readers and will back him up. There is nothing wrong with backing him on this, but maybe you need to see that there are better ways for him to handle such things (ie, ASKING FOR SOMEONES HELP.)

If you really want to help the little players who have a hard time, then do them a favor and stop looking at thing’s from only your prospective and see it from theirs.

I see in most posts people can’t seem to look past their own ego (i.e. I’ve played 5,000 hours, black FoW armor, PvP, I can solo farm RoT, koabd, the list goes on). While others try to justify that it’s easy because they had one successful run. Do you also expect that 121,185 members on this forum are the same 1 million (or 3 million how ever you want to look at it) experienced players that use the same 8 skills found on the builds listing on wiki when all three chapter combined there’s roughly 1200 skill, not everyone owns all three chapters.

I read one post where the “experienced player” ripped on a person that is new to the game, he used the same excuses that are found right here in this very thread. He even went to great length to list the players skills and actions, but never once thought about asking the person if they only owned nightfall and if they where new to the game, common sense should have been enough to ask that simple question. I guess the best mentality is to degrade, flame on people because you can’t relate with them.

The only difference between him and the other people who have said the same things, his voice seems to be louder then others that’s all.

This thread is pretty much dead, it’s eight pages repeating itself going no where. But I can only guess why it’s been allowed to stay open for this long.

MegaMouse · Feb 25, 2007, 06:29 AM // 06:29

I have to agree with the OP on this. Guild Wars has steadly become less fun and has become more of a chore to play than anything else. The first chapter (yes I am a GW veteran) was great, I actualy loved to go back and complete what I missed, now I don't even care to finish the game with more than one character let alone do the grind to finish with another one. They have steadily been nerfin skills that were fine to placate a group that used to be the minority, but has now become a majority not due to more of them playing, but due to less PVE players in the game. Its not fun anymore and it truly needs a rollback to the days it was fun.

Mega Mouse

Gli · Feb 25, 2007, 07:48 AM // 07:48

Quote:

Originally Posted by strcpy

In the end, the rewards for Vabbi and below are too high to have the RoT (or even the DoA) *ever* give rewards equal to its difficulty without totally destroying the economy. Heck, the highest rewards are in Vabbi (trade contracts) and they pretty much blow every other quest reward in all three chapters away. If you scaled that up to compare with the difficulty difference then inflation would split people into those who have made it to the RoT and those that haven't - about like the early days of the 105 monks.

They could have at least made Inscribed Secrets give the same rewards as the trade contracts in Vabbi.

What the hell is the point of offering bags and runes of holding at that stage in the game? It's pathetic.

Hell Raiser · Feb 25, 2007, 10:07 AM // 10:07

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zehnchu

If you really want to help the little players who have a hard time, then do them a favor and stop looking at thing’s from only your prospective and see it from theirs.

I see in most posts people can’t seem to look past their own ego (i.e. I’ve played 5,000 hours, black FoW armor, PvP, I can solo farm RoT, koabd, the list goes on). While others try to justify that it’s easy because they had one successful run. Do you also expect that 121,185 members on this forum are the same 1 million (or 3 million how ever you want to look at it) experienced players that use the same 8 skills found on the builds listing on wiki when all three chapter combined there’s roughly 1200 skill, not everyone owns all three chapters.

I read one post where the “experienced player” ripped on a person that is new to the game, he used the same excuses that are found right here in this very thread. He even went to great length to list the players skills and actions, but never once thought about asking the person if they only owned nightfall and if they where new to the game, common sense should have been enough to ask that simple question. I guess the best mentality is to degrade, flame on people because you can’t relate with them.

The only difference between him and the other people who have said the same things, his voice seems to be louder then others that’s all.

This thread is pretty much dead, it’s eight pages repeating itself going no where. But I can only guess why it’s been allowed to stay open for this long.

Ok wait... You want me to see from your perspective yet you wont see it from mine? Obviously he owns all 3 chapters, instead of going and writing something like this he could have asked someone for their advice on RoT (ie wether they also thought it was hard, or found it easy).

He gets to a hard part and says "screw this game", that is not a mature way to handle it. He could have come to guru (or another fansite) and stated his experience (not the way he did in the article, I mean like "I went outside to do this quest and had to res kill, is this normal for that quest?"), and asked for advice. I admit that it is harder than most areas of the game, and Anet could have cut down on the amount of high level monsters there, but there is better ways of talking about this then saying the game can "die and go to hell".

Please don't ask me to see your point of view if you can't see mine.

Rusty Deth · Feb 25, 2007, 10:32 AM // 10:32

I agree with Hell Raiser there...

We all come to that point in a game where we all either do something about it, or say screw it.

For me RoT truely was that spot, but instead of quiting or complaining the rewards suck. I gathered all my knowledge and stated I could do this.

Now I want to go onto other things such as DoA. And the "lack" of rewards isthe least of my worries.

Maybe I'm crazy but I thought having Primeval Armor for beating Nightfall ment something, at least whenI wear it I feel it does. And that works for me.

All in all its virtually impossible for any game or any gaming company to satisfy everyone all the time.

cthulhu reborn · Feb 25, 2007, 11:13 AM // 11:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andisa Kalorn

But my point is that, just by doing the quests, I've been getting tons of money. One character got 20k going through RoT. She also got a lot more money in the Desolation, Vabbi, etc. More than enough to buy 15k armor. I remember back in prophecies, when I had a character that finished the game, I still had to do a lot of farming to get 15k armor and cool weapon skins. Now, with inscribable weapons, and hero skill points, things are cheaper than ever. I haven't farmed in months, and I've bought Urgoz Longbow, 15k armor, a dead sword, and other things. And I have more money than I started with. All just from doing quests, missions, etc.

It just seems a strange thing to get annoyed about. The rewards need to be bigger in RoT? .

I see you saw the firs bit of my post and not the 2nd part so to reiterate my point was not so much getting more cash but getting rewards such as skills and maybe something you can collect to get a cool weapon or off hand like DoA has. To basically sorta give a purpose to the area beyond passing through it.

Shmanka · Feb 25, 2007, 11:19 AM // 11:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by tomcruisejr

maybe that dude doesn't have PvE skillz.

What skillz... oh no... not another one of these threads... mod... mod!... MOD!

ChaoticCoyote · Feb 25, 2007, 02:56 PM // 14:56

I never had any real problems completing RoT, and I herohenched most of the quests. I don't consider it a "fun" place to go, and my characters spend very little time there, but that is more a matter of aesthetics than it is difficulty.

Now, if this editor was talkign of the Domain of Anguish (many people confuse it with RoT), he might have a point.

But RoT itself is not all that difficult, and I'm by no means uber-elite.

Stupid Shizno · Feb 25, 2007, 03:39 PM // 15:39

You didnt know? if someone else said it sucks, it must be true

Bryant Again · Feb 25, 2007, 03:59 PM // 15:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Burst Cancel

Your statement is at best ambiguous and at worst self-contradictory. If you can get 'those items' without doing the quests, why would an improvement of those quests make any difference?

That's the problem, really. Besides getting XP for skill points, there's really no reason to do the quests. At all. And now that you brought that up, I'm not sure what the devoloper's could do to make the quests worthwhile.

reetkever · Feb 25, 2007, 04:37 PM // 16:37

I agree with the OP. If you forget about exp, most Tyrian quest rewards have way more value than the RoT rewards. Especially if you see skills as 1K.

What's so hard about giving us a good reward for hard(er) quests. I'm not one of the super 1337 guys, and I DO think that RoT is a pain to play in (Haven't been in RoT after getting trampled in Breaking the Broken by over 40 Torment creatures -.-)

Uber strong monsters that duplicate are NOT making the game challenging in a fun way, they're making it a friggin hell, where nobody likes to play. Quests there are the last thing I wanna do, unless they give me something in return.

Most of my characters have about 500 skillpoints already - enough to get the titles, so EXP doesn't mean anything to me. And for a measly 450 gold, I'd rather kill some Hulking Stone Elementals in Ascalon -.-

RoT is just a pain to be in, and if A-net wants to make the quests attractive, they'll have to give us VERY good rewards (I'm not talking about some stupid gold, but about platinum here. Or give us skills).

Maybe a title for completing quests might make it more interesting, but I don't think it's enough to make RoT popular.

Chris Blackstar · Feb 25, 2007, 04:39 PM // 16:39

I read the artical, and clearly I have to disagree. To me the guy is a casual player, and how wrong can he be, my sin has no problem with heros or henchies getting through quest in the realm of torment, and same goes for the rest of my characters. Now there are some areas that require a change in tactics and builds, but that is what make the game a challenge.

There is one valid point to his argument, that is skill nerfs, everytime Anet nerfs certain skills that are clearly balanced for the elete areas of PvE, to balance PvP, it make questing that much harder for PvE players. That is a conflict to the marjority of the community who play PvE.

Lastly, I am tired of PvP players saying that guild wars was designed as a PvP only game. How wrong can you be, guild wars was designed to be a online game were players can group together to either play PvE or PvP, depending on their option, yes there are guilds, but not all battle each other, although the option is there.

EPO Bot · Feb 25, 2007, 04:43 PM // 16:43

I think a lot of players who complain just want this game to be WoW where the hardest areas give the best loot, wile in THIS game the hard areas just give items that proove you can handle them (or buy them). Doa weapons are for the best of the best. That means not you and me.

Another thing you can compare it to:

GW rewards: Medals made of fake gold like the olimpic games
WoW rewards: über loot like sponsored professional sports